ducking

[Mongo82]

Hi, not sure this is correct term, did a forum search and could not find much. I am looking to achieve a lazy way for those who are no good using the faders to lower volume and talk.

I have at my disposal a Mackie ProFX10V3 mixer and a Behringer Composer Pro XL MDX2600. I have tried to follow some of the YouTube tutorials but not been able to create same result, possibly due to incompatible equipment or just clear as mud how to do's. Most were using big professional desks so maybe that's it? I have dynamic mics but would like to use the condenser which is powered by the mackie if at all possible.

My head is hurting, as have been at this for hours so in lamen terms, if someone can help. would be greatly received.

Cheers

[XXL]

I think it’s called voice over/mic talk. Not too sure what actually does the job though. Once it goes past a certain volume db it cuts the music down to whatever you’ve set it to.

[thewisepranker]

The term specific to compressors is "side chain". If you can get the mixer to output all of your audio via the main outputs (minus mic) and also the microphone on a separate output channel, then you can connect the main mix (i.e. music, no mic) to the compressor main inputs and the microphone only output to the side chain returns. The output of the compressor will then be ducked main mix with mic over the top, depending on the thresholds and time constants set.

[Albert H]

Way back, I did a simple stereo ducker that used an NE570 as a stereo Voltage Controlled Amplifier. My mixer (in those days) had a separate stereo "Music Bus", and the ducker was fitted to that mix bus. The circuit was a simple amplifier stage feeding a "diode pump" rectifier, giving a DC level proportional to the level of the speech on the microphone channel. If this exceeded a preset threshold, the music bus was faded enough for a voiceover, and when you stopped talking, the music would fade back up. I've probably got the circuit in a notebook somewhere - it was submitted to one of the Electronics Comics back in the late 70s or early 80s, but I don't think that it was ever published.

More recently, I've been building bespoke studio desks, which often include this kind of facility. These days I use the THAT2181 VCA IC to handle the fading, but the principle is the same. I always inlude copious normalled insert points into the music channels, mic channels and the mix busses, so that things like noise gates, compressors, limiters and various effects gear can easily be patched in. All channels have the option of balanced or unbalanced input, and impedances are switchable, to match the majority of studio gear. I use simple logic switching for the PFLs and always include switched relay contacts for speaker muting and "Mic Live" signs. The most expensive part of building these things is getting the metalwork done!

[reverend]

The usual way of doing this is to have a compressor/limiter on the output of the studio. Set the mic gain to give a full scale output and the gain of everything else to be 10 or 12 dB lower. The compressor will lift the output of 'everything else's to be full scale but when someone speaks, it will reduce the gain to compensate for the additional loudness and the mic will be full scale and everything else will be 10 dB lower.

[Albert H]

Rev - that works, but always sounds brutal!

[Albert H]

Here's the circuit of the Rolls DU30b ducker. It works pretty well, and if you can't build one yourself, you can buy them from Amazon for ~£90.

DU30b.png

The only tricky components are the J113 FETs used in the attenuator. They'll need to be matched for pinch-off voltage.

[Mongo82]

The term specific to compressors is "side chain". If you can get the mixer to output all of your audio via the main outputs (minus mic) and also the microphone on a separate output channel, then you can connect the main mix (i.e. music, no mic) to the compressor main inputs and the microphone only output to the side chain returns. The output of the compressor will then be ducked main mix with mic over the top, depending on the thresholds and time constants set.

Cheers twp,

This is what i have been trying

channel one (mic channel) mute
send main output to compressor
channel one (mic channel) plug jack lead (TRS) into insert and connect to side chain (return)... when i plug into (send) it does not trigger leds on side chain but does with return?
So I can get a signal to dip the side chain compressor leds but get no mic volume, and when music plays side chain gets countered out. What could i be doing wrong

[Mongo82]

what i have if useful.

https://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/ ... 764145.jpg

https://mackie.com/en/products/mixers/p ... #gallery-4

[Mongo82]

Here's the circuit of the Rolls DU30b ducker. It works pretty well, and if you can't build one yourself, you can buy them from Amazon for ~£90.

DU30b.png

The only tricky components are the J113 FETs used in the attenuator. They'll need to be matched for pinch-off voltage.

Thanks Albert, I am probably not going to be able to build that, but did take a look at the Rolls. Trying to get my head around the unit and how I'd get this back into the audio mixer for control. i guess id get no control on mic EQ's?

At the moment, I am feeding DJ turntable mixer audio out to the Mackie desk, and running the mic direct from Mackie mixer.

Thanks all for the help so far.

[Polecat]

Hi Mongo.

I may have misunderstood what you’re trying to achieve. Is it that you’re a DJ doing a radio show and trying to get your voiceovers to sound right?

[sinus trouble]

Hi Mongo.

I may have misunderstood what you’re trying to achieve. Is it that you’re a DJ doing a radio show and trying to get your voiceovers to sound right?

I remember some old mixers had a switch to activate an "Auto Voice Over" function! This would dip the music by say 50% when Mic signal was detected?

All of the suggestions above will work!

However, I DJ live on regular basis and do not find it a difficult task to adjust the faders manually when i need to!

Infact i would argue that it gives me full control! Sometimes with a live audience you need that control to capture the reaction of the crowd!

[yellowbeard]

That feature is called "Talkover" on a mixer. It works but it does sound gashy, it'd be better to persuade your people to do a better job - play them some recordings of them being shite and see if it helps. Talkover is more likely to be seen on cheap toy mixer, you could get one and pass the music from your nice mixer through the line in and plug the mike into it separately. Here is a £40 mixer I found that'd do the job:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/fun_generation_usb_mix_3.htm

[sinus trouble]

That feature is called "Talkover" on a mixer. It works but it does sound gashy, it'd be better to persuade your people to do a better job - play them some recordings of them being shite and see if it helps. Talkover is more likely to be seen on cheap toy mixer, you could get one and pass the music from your nice mixer through the line in and plug the mike into it separately. Here is a £40 mixer I found that'd do the job:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/fun_generation_usb_mix_3.htm

Awww!! Aint that cute!!

[Polecat]

However, I DJ live on regular basis and do not find it a difficult task to adjust the faders manually when i need to!

Infact i would argue that it gives me full control! Sometimes with a live audience you need that control to capture the reaction of the crowd!

That’s exactly what I was thinking Sinus. Btw trust you’re well!

[BriansBrain]

I never have any worries about ducking.
My program does it automatically on every Overlay (voice tracking).
Then Breakaway Broadcast Processor takes over and smooths it all out perfectly.

Brian's Voice Tracking .jpg

[sinus trouble]

It all depends on how Mongo82 conducts his set?

Is it pre recorded or live?

Errors during recording can easily be edited! Yet live is a different matter!

[Mongo82]

It all depends on how Mongo82 conducts his set?

Is it pre recorded or live?

Errors during recording can easily be edited! Yet live is a different matter!

I've always used the traditional fader drop and up between music, most seem to get on with that OK, its just the occasional one who wants to go one to one and compete with music full up with fingers doing out of time gymnastics with the fader. He has settled for just waiting for the music to fade out, talk and then bring in next track. I do like the idea of automated drops when speaking though for ease of not having to keep explaining. I don't use any automated software, but if i did that would not be problem to achieve if that were the route i was planning to go down. But i am not. That being said Obs has an auto duck system built into effects. but as i am all analogue, to the point of streaming, side chaining would be the way for me if only i could get the thing to work. I suppose i could run all audio into obs with a mic, and run a feed back to the main mixer. but i think it would be probably pick up artifacts of soundcard and end up sounding murr.

[mikroman]

Hi, not sure this is correct term, did a forum search and could not find much. I am looking to achieve a lazy way for those who are no good using the faders to lower volume and talk.

I have at my disposal a Mackie ProFX10V3 mixer and a Behringer Composer Pro XL MDX2600. I have tried to follow some of the YouTube tutorials but not been able to create same result, possibly due to incompatible equipment or just clear as mud how to do's. Most were using big professional desks so maybe that's it? I have dynamic mics but would like to use the condenser which is powered by the mackie if at all possible.

My head is hurting, as have been at this for hours so in lamen terms, if someone can help. would be greatly received.

Cheers

Try the following:
1. insert headphones into "FX send"
2. turn the FX potentiometer on channel 1 to 12 o'clock.
3. if you have the sound of the microphone on the headphones, then ducking can be done!
------
Setup:
1. make a 6.3 connector and connect the FX send to the sidechain on the behringer processor (L and R channel)
2. make connectors and connect the PC to the input of the behringer processor
3. make a connector and connect the output of the behringer processor and the line in input to the mackie mixer
4. set the compression ratio on the behringer to maximum (infinity)
5. You are ready to drive!

I did this a long time ago with behringer, so I left out some details like "sc mon" which you will probably have to activate.

You still need to adjust the sidechain level and att./relase values and that's it.

It should be kept in mind that if the "fx send" signal is factory set as a pre-fader, it will work ducking regardless of the mic level on the main fader!

[Mongo82]

Try the following:
1. insert headphones into "FX send"
2. turn the FX potentiometer on channel 1 to 12 o'clock.
3. if you have the sound of the microphone on the headphones, then ducking can be done!
------
Setup:
1. make a 6.3 connector and connect the FX send to the sidechain on the behringer processor (L and R channel)
2. make connectors and connect the PC to the input of the behringer processor
3. make a connector and connect the output of the behringer processor and the line in input to the mackie mixer
4. set the compression ratio on the behringer to maximum (infinity)
5. You are ready to drive!

Hi, thanks, I am getting mic in one channel when FX is upped to unity on channel one. What is the PC for? The only thing i'm using a computer for is to record.

my set up is

2 technics 1200s / Formula sound Mixer / output from mixer to the Mackie desk and mic driven by that.

Ideally I'm trying to keep control of audio and mic so i can make changes such as equalizing and level, I want to be able to duck the sound and send it back to the desk or at least from an output after the compressor stage so i can directly monitor / record. Also going from the FX, I potentially now have two mic outs on the main mix as i cannot mute channel 1 as that stops audio going to FX Send on the Mackie?