Merseyside

For discussion of all stations in the UK that are outside of London.
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oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:33 pm

LeeCavanagh wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:52 pm I dont think he does have one, not sure why.
BlackJake are you getting round to adding your stream? Also i see you wrote a few times thst its 7 days (but what tines on those days, for how long?)
I can answer that one, the streaming server would be at the same QTH as the TX, so a big come and get me sign, there's also the PRS problems. Resourcing an offshore Icecast2 server with an SSH or VPN connection is not cheap.

LeeCavanagh
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Re: Merseyside

Post by LeeCavanagh » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:45 pm

you dont need an entire vitrual server if you are simply planning on having your uplink re broadcast....
Fair points tho
MAR Have been doing it for years.
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oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:49 pm

LeeCavanagh wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:45 pm you dont need an entire vitrual server if you are simply planning on having your uplink re broadcast....
Fair points tho
MAR Have been doing it for years.
You are assuming there is an uplink, I will say no more :)

LeeCavanagh
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Re: Merseyside

Post by LeeCavanagh » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:56 pm

oldtech wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:49 pm
LeeCavanagh wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:45 pm you dont need an entire vitrual server if you are simply planning on having your uplink re broadcast....
Fair points tho
MAR Have been doing it for years.
You are assuming there is an uplink, I will say no more :)
Not assuming just suggesting option1 of many.
When are they on fm next?
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oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:11 pm

LeeCavanagh wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:56 pm
oldtech wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:49 pm
LeeCavanagh wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:45 pm you dont need an entire vitrual server if you are simply planning on having your uplink re broadcast....
Fair points tho
MAR Have been doing it for years.
You are assuming there is an uplink, I will say no more :)
Not assuming just suggesting option1 of many.
When are they on fm next?
Fair enough, it's not unreasonable these days to assume an internet link, but they use an old skool pre-internet linking method. I am not sure when they are back I'll ask the Op. and get back to you

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Re: Merseyside

Post by Blackjake » Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:05 pm

It was good to hear Merseyland Alternative Radio back on the air last Sunday. Good signal into Crewe on 87.5 fm

jvok
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Re: Merseyside

Post by jvok » Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:46 am

Blackjake wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:05 pm It was good to hear Merseyland Alternative Radio back on the air last Sunday. Good signal into Crewe on 87.5 fm
Must have had a power boost. Theyve been on 87.5 most sundays but really low power so never got out as far as crewe

Leroy-BaseFM
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Re: Merseyside

Post by Leroy-BaseFM » Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:24 pm

oldtech wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:11 pm
LeeCavanagh wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:56 pm
oldtech wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:49 pm

You are assuming there is an uplink, I will say no more :)
Not assuming just suggesting option1 of many.
When are they on fm next?
Fair enough, it's not unreasonable these days to assume an internet link, but they use an old skool pre-internet linking method. I am not sure when they are back I'll ask the Op. and get back to you
This setup sounds quite different to us :) - We cannot be found from our Web stream... but, our TX site does rely on a stream, which can be an issue at times! - Internet drops are a thing especially with the weather we have been having.

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Re: Merseyside

Post by LeeCavanagh » Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:13 am

4g can drop a lot, fine if you have some sort of 4g auto connecting router , or better still use someone else’s free Wi-Fi in the building (so long as the free cloud doesn’t add more drops), they usually won’t drop unless you appear idle or due to signal, plus customers broadband lines can go down during overnight hub reboots and line tests - which are more frequent than sone providers admit too.

Anyway , you seem to be doing ok.
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oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:24 pm

Leroy-BaseFM wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:24 pm
This setup sounds quite different to us :) - We cannot be found from our Web stream... but, our TX site does rely on a stream, which can be an issue at times! - Internet drops are a thing especially with the weather we have been having.
Well a number of different linking methods were used prior to the arrival of the Internet. How do you ensure that your stream cannot be found? obviously you do not make it public, but I've noticed from my Icecast2 logs that every time I put a stream up I have a least one or two "listeners" within seconds, clearly there are some automated scanners out there which look for streams and possibly monitor for indexing or PRS reasons, I have no idea, they are nearly always located in Wichita US and are using Google Cloud services and some software called Axios

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Re: Merseyside

Post by jvok » Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:38 pm

If your hosting your own icecast instance just for linking you could limit access to only known IP addresses and block everything else

LeeCavanagh
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Re: Merseyside

Post by LeeCavanagh » Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:27 pm

oldtech wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:24 pm
Leroy-BaseFM wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:24 pm
This setup sounds quite different to us :) - We cannot be found from our Web stream... but, our TX site does rely on a stream, which can be an issue at times! - Internet drops are a thing especially with the weather we have been having.
Well a number of different linking methods were used prior to the arrival of the Internet. How do you ensure that your stream cannot be found? obviously you do not make it public, but I've noticed from my Icecast2 logs that every time I put a stream up I have a least one or two "listeners" within seconds, clearly there are some automated scanners out there which look for streams and possibly monitor for indexing or PRS reasons, I have no idea, they are nearly always located in Wichita US and are using Google Cloud services and some software called Axios
Don’t make public but also disable the YP directory

If you are worried about paying PRs then maybe pirate radio isn’t for you, :)

The stream on the internet can be found, doesn’t matter so long as you are not attracting attention to your tx site. Keep them Seperate if bothered

So one stream used to give station its feed
And another can be used to stream to Shoutcast server (that last step is optional) ultimately it’s what you are comfortable with, I’m not aware of ofcom tracing isp links from their online radio streams.

Those cling on directories can be useful but most are a pain, I’ve blocked some.
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LeeCavanagh
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Re: Merseyside

Post by LeeCavanagh » Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:28 pm

I’m currently getting a dead carrier in mono on 87.8 mhz. 22db
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oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:02 pm

jvok wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:38 pm If your hosting your own icecast instance just for linking you could limit access to only known IP addresses and block everything else
OK thanks, I was just interested, if I run a stream I want it to be public, so of course I use the yp directory. I do not use a server for linking, I just wondered how stations secured their links. Presumably you could have a login/pwd also to limit access.

oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:15 pm

LeeCavanagh wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:27 pm
oldtech wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:24 pm
Leroy-BaseFM wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:24 pm
This setup sounds quite different to us :) - We cannot be found from our Web stream... but, our TX site does rely on a stream, which can be an issue at times! - Internet drops are a thing especially with the weather we have been having.
Well a number of different linking methods were used prior to the arrival of the Internet. How do you ensure that your stream cannot be found? obviously you do not make it public, but I've noticed from my Icecast2 logs that every time I put a stream up I have a least one or two "listeners" within seconds, clearly there are some automated scanners out there which look for streams and possibly monitor for indexing or PRS reasons, I have no idea, they are nearly always located in Wichita US and are using Google Cloud services and some software called Axios
Don’t make public but also disable the YP directory

If you are worried about paying PRs then maybe pirate radio isn’t for you, :)

The stream on the internet can be found, doesn’t matter so long as you are not attracting attention to your tx site. Keep them Seperate if bothered

So one stream used to give station its feed
And another can be used to stream to Shoutcast server (that last step is optional) ultimately it’s what you are comfortable with, I’m not aware of ofcom tracing isp links from their online radio streams.

Those cling on directories can be useful but most are a pain, I’ve blocked some.
Sorry I was not clear, I do not use a server for linking, if I am streaming I want it to be public so I use the yp Icecast directory. I was asking how stations who use a server uplink secure it. Not worried about PRS as such, just interested in the methods used, I assume that sending Title/Artist helps them compile a log and a bill:-) Tx site is not a problem, the last pirate Tx I operated had a 6146 in the pa and that is long gone. I set up Icecast on my Linux box just to learn how to configure it, I don't use it very often.

oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:31 pm

Anyway I found what I was looking for "Listener Authentication" you can protect the stream using httpasswd from within Icecast
https://icecast.org/docs/icecast-trunk/auth/

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Re: Merseyside

Post by Albert H » Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:08 pm

oldtech wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:31 pm Anyway I found what I was looking for "Listener Authentication" you can protect the stream using httpasswd from within Icecast
https://icecast.org/docs/icecast-trunk/auth/
That's exactly the approach I've used. I've also used MAC address mapping and a few other tricks to make links inaccessible to "unauthorised" users.
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Re: Merseyside

Post by LeeCavanagh » Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:52 pm

If you still want to be in YP then yeah you can just unselect Artist and Title in the cast client. I heard that there has been some fca scans of live audio (like Shazam) when artist and title are turned off. Personally I like it still on (as the history of tracks played on directories can help someone decide to listen)

Is there a reason users prefer icecast over Shoutcast? I’ve used both of course but curious if there is anything that users don’t like about Shoutcast?

It’s a bit harder to get SSL https working with streams, if you are hosting your own server that is, easier on Linux than windows from my experience.
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oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:21 pm

LeeCavanagh wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:52 pm If you still want to be in YP then yeah you can just unselect Artist and Title in the cast client. I heard that there has been some fca scans of live audio (like Shazam) when artist and title are turned off. Personally I like it still on (as the history of tracks played on directories can help someone decide to listen)

Is there a reason users prefer icecast over Shoutcast? I’ve used both of course but curious if there is anything that users don’t like about Shoutcast?

It’s a bit harder to get SSL https working with streams, if you are hosting your own server that is, easier on Linux than windows from my experience.
Unless you are paying then Shoutcast will only give you MP3 128kbs, Icecast does 320kbs, they are both fairly easy to configure, and yes easier on Linux. Let's Encrypt free certs work with both AFAIK

oldtech
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Re: Merseyside

Post by oldtech » Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:22 pm

Albert H wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:08 pm
oldtech wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:31 pm Anyway I found what I was looking for "Listener Authentication" you can protect the stream using httpasswd from within Icecast
https://icecast.org/docs/icecast-trunk/auth/
That's exactly the approach I've used. I've also used MAC address mapping and a few other tricks to make links inaccessible to "unauthorised" users.
Yes it's all in the Icecast manual somewhere, it's just a very big manual:-)

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