90s vs 2025 rigs

[Mongo82]

Things seem to have come a long way since the days I bought rigs from builders in the City and I was wondering about pll rigs that were built in the 90s, and the ones built today what's the difference in quality that may be seen as problematic in 2025 perhaps they are not. Are there many rigs of that age still about that propagate the airwaves? I think the last rig I bought was an nrg rig through Veronica. At the time it was considered decent gear.

I ask this question because from what I read it seems builders are rare these days, i read often mentioned components are are hard to obtain, and some not as well made as perhaps once we're, but that's perhaps just speculation, on my part maybe. If we can exclude rds. What is the difference between old and new And our there many transmitters still broadcasting, still rocking old transmitters or even using Chinese rigs of high power? I imagine they know better not to use junk especially if staying on air without hassle for so long. And processing perhaps is far better these days however my questions the same.

[tvtv]

The nrg pll pro 3 or above were all very good and still used for sone builds today, they still technically out perform many newer pll designs but are a bit bulky for some builds. And parts are not as readily available. Albert will no doubt go into more detail so I will go grab a cuppa

[Gigahertz]

The nrg pll pro 3 or above were all very good and still used for sone builds today, they still technically out perform many newer pll designs but are a bit bulky for some builds. And parts are not as readily available. Albert will no doubt go into more detail so I will go grab a cuppa

[Mongo82]

The nrg pll pro 3 or above were all very good and still used for sone builds today, they still technically out perform many newer pll designs but are a bit bulky for some builds. And parts are not as readily available. Albert will no doubt go into more detail so I will go grab a cuppa

[jvok]

A well built rig is still a well built rig and a pile of shite is still a pile of shite, nothings really changed. Vfos have gone the way of the dodo thanks to digital tuners and the bands being more packed, don't have room for drifty rigs anymore. But as long as its a PLL a good rig from the 90s is just as good as one from today. Smd parts have made modern rigs smaller and newer FETs are more efficient than the old bipolar but in terms of the signal your putting on air not much has changed. I'd definitely take a decent 90s pll over some chinese aliexpress junk.

A lot of builders now are still building the same designs they were 30 years ago anyway. Even old obsolete parts can still be had if you know where to look. RF transistors, pll ics, trimmer caps/coils etc are all stocked on enigma/drfs, only thing you really can't get anymore are toko filters used in old stereo coders. Plus I think a lot of builders have their own parts horde to keep them going for years

[King Croccy]

The main difference is protection.

Back in the day, the bipolar transistors were relatively inexpensive, for instance you could get a sd1407 for £8. These days the mosfets are expensive if you are buying brand new. With so many fake devices available not giving proper specs, you end up having to buy from a proper supplier. So if you pop a modern day device you are going to have an expensive repair bill.

This is why most modern rigs have VSWR and temperature protection nowadays. The VSWR protects the rig from too much reverse power coming back which would result in the rig running hot, reduced efficiency and a poor signal. The temp protection is to monitor the mosfets junction temperature to ensure it's not getting too hot. Usually most will shut the rig down if it hits 85 degrees.

There is a close relationship between the two protections as well. For instance, lets say the swr is high (but not enough to trigger the swr circuit), sometimes the temp protection comes on due to the reverse power heating up the mosfet too much etc..

Unfortunately most pirates don't realize that these clever circuits are there to aid them from blowing up their rigs and think the builder is trying to "penalize" them The circuits often gets bypassed and the rig blows up the next day (just like a 90s rig would)

[shuffy]

The nrg pll pro 3 or above were all very good and still used for sone builds today, they still technically out perform many newer pll designs but are a bit bulky for some builds. And parts are not as readily available.

Agreed, it's such a good design and the clone kits still sell. I see people building rigs incorporating these exciters all the time. Big pirates were using PLL exciters prior to the PLL Pros though, mostly variations on a handful of designs. The popular Motorola and Philips PLL chips were easily available in the 80s and I think the TSA5511 from early 90s. You could probably write an essay on exciters (I'll make a cuppa) and OK, you can make way more sophisticated ones these days due to MCUs etc but I don't see lots of progress to be honest. Slightly OT and we've covered it elsewhere but it does make me chuckle when I still see people looking for devices whose replacements are also now obsolete (I'm thinking of the 2N4427).

For me, the big advances have been in PSUs and PAs. Amplifiers were expensive, inefficient and fragile and again, seemed to be a handful of designs used by lots of builders. There were bipolar devices up to 100W or so and above that, a small number of FETs but far less efficient than these days and expensive compared to today. If you wanted higher power, that increased the complexity of the design. It's way easier now to get hundreds of Watts out of a robust FET PA with modest drive levels. In terms of the "challenges" faced, today's devices have stupid high gain across huge frequency ranges, which does introduce some gotchas.

As for power supplies, when SMPS became more popular they brought the cost and bulk right down, but again, different challenges, mostly noise. More choice in the market tempted people to skimp on the quality. That said, you still have to balance out cost/quality against how long the thing's going to be up there for.

Test equipment is cheaper these days too so that's a less obvious benefit.

In terms of old 90s rigs on air? Not saying there aren't but almost certainly just weekend pirates out in the sticks who've never had one taken.

[shuffy]

The main difference is protection.

Good point! Looks like we were all writing at the same time

[shuffy]

Back in the day, the bipolar transistors were relatively inexpensive, for instance you could get a sd1407 for £8.

True but IIRC you had to drive the bugger with plenty of welly to get usable power out of it on Band II, and you could fry eggs on it. Wasn't it a BLF244 most people used.

[Mongo82]

Cheers for the replies, I'm glad It wasn't too dopey a question to ask. Excluding the Chinese alibaba stuff, how small have some of the builds got that you could expect to get from some of the worthy builders on here, specifically to hideaway discreetly. I'm talking say low power of 50 watts link ready, all singing all dancing? Ive seen the wkend rigs in photos on here, and they look lovely but still a size, not too much in it compared to an nrg pro.