Simple TSA5511 schematic

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Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by OgreVorbis » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:56 am

I want a simple schematic for the TSA5511 and VCO only with very low output power (maybe about 0dBm). I looked at some RDVV designs, but they are too complicated and I have a limited knowledge of VCO + PLLs.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PLL-FM-BROADC ... Swo6lWK6YU

This is almost what I'm looking for, but the seller doesn't include a schematic, so I'd have to identify all the components manually.

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by pjeva » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:34 am

Hello. First, this device is 1w (30db) and you are looking for 1mW (0db). Also, it requires setup so it is not so easy to build. And we spoke about this in some treads on this forum so you can check for schematic. And last, you will need program for microcontroller which controls TSA5511. Maybe RDVV would be better choice after all as it can be built almost without any knowledge (google 300mw rdvv)
Cheers!


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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by 3M amateur » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:17 am

Hi, this transmitter is copy of Pira,s 1W PLL transmitter.

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by yellowbeard » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:47 pm

A lot diagrams of RDVV stuff is available here:

Code: Select all

http://www.3-mtr.info/shareware/
Have fun now! :tup

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by OgreVorbis » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:38 am

These seem to be what you're talking about:
http://www.3-mtr.info/shareware/RDVV%20300mWatt/
http://bygselvhifi.dk/projects/mono-fm- ... a5511-pll/

Looks like his newer designs...
http://www.3-mtr.info/sales/

...have a different oscillator circuit. These oscillators seem much simpler than the veronica or NRG. What is compromised by using a small design like this vs an NRG board? Will there be more spurious or more distortion? Or is it pretty much the same quality and just a better design?

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by nrgkits.nz » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:25 pm

I'm experimenting with similar designs on my bench at moment, these are "at frequency" designs so are susceptible to hum and RF feedback if not screened and bypassed properly. 300mW will probably be ok but building one with a 1971 for the output to generate 5w you'll need to make sure the oscillator is screened from the output and pcb well grounded.

The NRG uses a half frequency oscillator so is not susceptible as much to hum and RF feedback. Albert will explain more when he's around.

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by Albert H » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:17 pm

The original NRG design used a pair of half-frequency oscillators arranged so that their collector circuits would "current rob" each other, giving two oscillators offset in phase by 180°. The collector circuit contained twice the frequency of each oscillator, so no "doubler" stage was necessary. A simple highpass filter separated out the Band II signal.

The big advantages were:
  • Lower frequency oscillators are easier to get inherently stable, so the PLL had less work to do.
  • Half frequency completely eliminated the problems of RF feedback.
  • The oscillators worked at frequencies that didn't demand the use of high-speed prescaler chips - 74HC logic was plenty fast enough - meaning that cheaper, easier-to-find parts could be used.
  • The purity of the Band II signal was such that simple broadband amplification could get a clean signal out of the board at several Watts.
There were some disadvantages too:
  • The oscillator components had to be absolutely identical so they ran exactly at the same frequency and with the same amplitude. The transistors had to have the same Hfe and the capacitors and resistors had to be matched for best results
  • The board layout had to be quite large to accommodate the six coils in the oscillators.
  • The oscillator loading had to be absolutely balanced to prevent spurious outputs (a point that escaped the clown Hollings who could never get rid of the unwanted products because he tried to "simplify" the oscillator design).
Stephen's oscillator was based on the "Kallitron", which was a 1930s valved design by the French engineer Mesney. I used a variant of it in a shortwave receiver design in the mid-70s, but it was Stephen who discovered its VHF potential and added the PLL circuit to it.
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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by Shedbuilt » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:53 pm

Albert H wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:17 pm Stephen's oscillator was based on the "Kallitron", which was a 1930s valved design by the French engineer Mesney. I used a variant of it in a shortwave receiver design in the mid-70s, but it was Stephen who discovered its VHF potential and added the PLL circuit to it.
I came across this (second page of the link) some time ago. A Coltley / Harpitts (Hartley / Colpitts hybrid, with tapped L and tapped C feedback), valved variant of Push Pull / Push Push Oscillator / Doubler http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technolo ... _April.pdf

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by Albert H » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:13 pm

Thanks Shedbuilt. I've seen a few other articles on the principle, and I've played with it a lot myself. Just for the sake of amusement, I used an oscillator like this tuned with a single Lecher Line (with taps to the transistors and so on) at 800MHz. The 1.6 GHz output was amazingly stable even without the addition of the PLL (I used the 5511 of course). I built a further push-pull doubler to get to 3.2 GHz. I have some receiver modules for that band, so knocked up a couple of very cheap and simple links, using etched Yagis! It's fun to be able to draw the aerial with indelible ink on to a piece of PCB material, and then etch exactly the aerial you want! I've done microwave Yagis and Colinears on single-sided copperclad with great results!
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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by rigmo » Fri Dec 13, 2024 7:57 pm

Shedbuilt wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:53 pm
Albert H wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:17 pm Stephen's oscillator was based on the "Kallitron", which was a 1930s valved design by the French engineer Mesney. I used a variant of it in a shortwave receiver design in the mid-70s, but it was Stephen who discovered its VHF potential and added the PLL circuit to it.
I came across this (second page of the link) some time ago. A Coltley / Harpitts (Hartley / Colpitts hybrid, with tapped L and tapped C feedback), valved variant of Push Pull / Push Push Oscillator / Doubler http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technolo ... _April.pdf
1954
earlier Kallitron oscilator
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Sh ... 954-09.pdf

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by Marcel » Fri Dec 27, 2024 5:17 pm

The disadvantage is that you also have signal on 50MHz and 150MHz ect ect.

I recently had a conversation with member RF Head and he told me that he made de input of the audio input low impedance to prevent hum and other problems on the carrier wave.

Dear Albert, When will you come up with a complete diagram of the simple PLL?
I notice that you always come up with a piece but not the whole story behind your designs.

Kind regards,
Marcel

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by Albert H » Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:07 am

If the Kallitron oscillator is properly balanced, there is no breakthough of the ½f signal. Similarly, there are no products at 1½f or 2f and so on. If you read my reply earlier up this thread, you'll see that we matched the transistors for hfe, and made sure that the capacitors and resistors were accurate pairs too. The NRG inductors were machine-made, so were entirely consistent.

My favoured approach is to "sniff" the Band II signal and feed that to the PLL from a later stage (where there's signal to spare) rather than risk unbalancing the oscillator. I found (for my cheap PLLs) that the 74F74 would easily clock at >120 MHz, so used this to "pre-scale" the Band II signal (dividing by 4) to feed the 74HC4040 diode-programmed frequency divider. The reference was a 74HC4060, which was programmed to allow the use of the cheap 4MHz crystals, and allow 100 kHz steps up the band. My phase comparator used a 74HC74 and 74HC00, feeding a low noise dual op-amp to give the loop filter, which works much better than the 4046, and gives clear "locked" and "unlocked" outputs.

Marcel - I'll put up a complete circuit and suggested layout in the next few days.
"Why is my rig humming?"
"Because it doesn't know the words!"
;)

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by Marcel » Sat Dec 28, 2024 7:01 pm

Albert Thank your explanation and the diagram, I am curios about the results.
Marcel

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by Marcel » Sat Jan 25, 2025 9:45 am

Albert,

Where are the schematics?

I always enjoy reading your technical information, but the explanations always consist of summary pieces of explanation.

Regards,
Marcel

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by oazz » Sat Jan 25, 2025 3:25 pm

Marcel wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 9:45 am Albert,

Where are the schematics?

I always enjoy reading your technical information, but the explanations always consist of summary pieces of explanation.

Regards,
Marcel
It is a trade secret. :P

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by Albert H » Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:43 am

Sorry I've been away. Back tomorrow. I'll put something up in the next day or two.
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;)

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by rigmo » Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:53 pm

OgreVorbis wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:38 am These seem to be what you're talking about:
http://www.3-mtr.info/shareware/RDVV%20300mWatt/
http://bygselvhifi.dk/projects/mono-fm- ... a5511-pll/

Looks like his newer designs...
http://www.3-mtr.info/sales/

...have a different oscillator circuit. These oscillators seem much simpler than the veronica or NRG. What is compromised by using a small design like this vs an NRG board? Will there be more spurious or more distortion? Or is it pretty much the same quality and just a better design?
Hi, do you know what is happend?
i see this mesage
"404
Not Found
The resource requested could not be found

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by EFR » Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:10 pm

rigmo wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:53 pm
OgreVorbis wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:38 am These seem to be what you're talking about:
http://www.3-mtr.info/shareware/RDVV%20300mWatt/
http://bygselvhifi.dk/projects/mono-fm- ... a5511-pll/

Looks like his newer designs...
http://www.3-mtr.info/sales/

...have a different oscillator circuit. These oscillators seem much simpler than the veronica or NRG. What is compromised by using a small design like this vs an NRG board? Will there be more spurious or more distortion? Or is it pretty much the same quality and just a better design?
Hi, do you know what is happend?
i see this mesage
"404
Not Found
The resource requested could not be found
Piratenpratten has some https://www.piratenpraten.nl/schemas/
Fight For Free Radio!

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by rigmo » Mon Jan 27, 2025 3:02 pm

EFR wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:10 pm Piratenpratten has some https://www.piratenpraten.nl/schemas/
Piratenpartei is the German expression for Pirate Party Image

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Re: Simple TSA5511 schematic

Post by EFR » Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:20 pm

rigmo wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 3:02 pm
EFR wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:10 pm Piratenpratten has some https://www.piratenpraten.nl/schemas/
Piratenpartei is the German expression for Pirate Party Image
My German skills are limited to movies about WW2, I think this is bad?
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