Strange thing on Vero 1W

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Fleming
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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by Fleming » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:34 pm

nrgkits.nz wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:40 am
Fleming wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:36 am
... 8-)
This will have a lot of half frequency breaking through to the output because the oscillator coils are not matched - they look all over the place.
Main frecuency and 2X pictures...
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radium98
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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by radium98 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:07 pm

can you show the pll you use ?

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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by Fleming » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:44 pm

radium98 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:07 pm
can you show the pll you use ?
Hi radium98
This is the basic diagram..for the PLL..forget the dip switchs and frecuency display ..for now
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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by Albert H » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 pm

Good grief! That's truly horrible! It's really over-complicated.

The preset counter ICs will suffer from terrible jitter at that kind of frequency, and the phase comparator is going to give a very coarse correction voltage....

The phase comparator I used to use went like this:
Phasecomp.png
The differential output to the active filter gave superb results, and the Lock / Unlock detection and indication was flawless. My comparison frequency was (usually) 25kHz if I was using TTL. I usually used 74LS series TTL, since it was faster and used less power.

The phase comparator in the 4046 is also very good :
AH_CMOS_PLL.png
This simple PLL (working at ½f) was simple and cheap to implement, and used the cheapest crystal that was commonly available. It could be built in a very small area, and if you wanted the ultimate in cost saving, you could just fit the diodes you needed, and short out the tracks to the switches! The phase pulses from Pin 1 of the 4046 could be used for Lock detection (it's mostly high when locked) and a simple CR filter feeding a transistor would give reliable indication and switching.
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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by sinus trouble » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:35 pm

Albert H wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 pm
Good grief! That's truly horrible!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Albert you crack me up!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have to agree, I am astonished this thing actually worked at all!!
I am as stupid as I look! :|

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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by Fleming » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:36 pm

Albert H wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 pm
Good grief! That's truly horrible! It's really over-complicated.

The preset counter ICs will suffer from terrible jitter at that kind of frequency, and the phase comparator is going to give a very coarse correction voltage....

Welcome Mr. Albert to this thread ... I have some comments to your observations
There is no jitter beyond the normal of ls TTL (for 5.7 Mhz app) because the preset of the 7490 is not used, the direct output is used to detect the count with the diodes and apply it directly to each counter (Thousands, hundreds , tens and units). This divides directly into the example by 913 to then apply this signal of 6.25Khz to the phase comparator.
The last stage uses a 74LS73 for the thousands, only to reduce the use of 74LS90..and all these TTL are used only because I have a box of them forgotten by time ..

.. As you commented more than once the idea of ​​the original VERO was always ... that the components were always simple and possible to locate anywhere.
"We are all very ignorant, what happens is that we do not all ignore the same things" Albert Einstein 8-)

Fleming
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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by Fleming » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:45 pm

Albert H wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 pm
Good grief! That's truly horrible! It's really over-complicated.

...., and the phase comparator is going to give a very coarse correction voltage....
The phase comparator used is the original of the VERO ... with 74LS86 ...
I agree that it's a bit rough ... but it works ... in fact I have a variant of this design, not yet proven, that adds the CD4046 .. in replacement of the 78LS86
It is interesting that you propose with FF type D as the 74LS74 and had not seen it before ... it is still necessary to calculate the values ​​of the Analog part to define the Gain and the filter..
"We are all very ignorant, what happens is that we do not all ignore the same things" Albert Einstein 8-)

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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by Fleming » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:10 pm

sinus trouble wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:35 pm
Albert H wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 pm
Good grief! That's truly horrible!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Albert you crack me up!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have to agree, I am astonished this thing actually worked at all!!

:smoke
Although it costs you to believe it works ..<br/>
despite what looks Good grief!<br/>
Here you have a sample of how it sounds, it's not wonderful, just compression with PC but it's not bad ... I had to compress the WAV ... but ..</r>
:smoke

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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by radium98 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:52 am

what software of audio processor do
you use

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Re: Strange thing on Vero 1W

Post by Fleming » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:41 pm

radium98 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:52 am
what software of audio processor do
you use
Hi radium98

In this case it is very simple (too much perhaps).
PC LOW resources ---- VLC (Internal compressor) - Stereo encoder --- Transmitter
The sample was obtained with SDR+ of the signal to Air. (SDR+ --- WAV(32 bit stereo) --- conversion to MP3 (192 Kbps))
(It sounds better in a real analog receiver)

Remember that the sound quality depends a lot on the VCO and the PLL on the transmitter and that's why the VERO is good.
"We are all very ignorant, what happens is that we do not all ignore the same things" Albert Einstein 8-)

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