Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Discuss all things relating to the busy London Pirate Radio scene.
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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by 82EmbleyPoint » Sun May 15, 2022 6:37 am

famefm wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 3:25 am Lbc is national on dab both of their services 1152 am and 97.3 fm and I think it's a change from just music radio and so much rubbish music about now I can only think of about 3 stations now that I still like
I think that is the key now if your national IE people can drive far enough away and still listen to FM or DAB it is very much alive (in cars), but now days the net is quicker cheaper and has more to offer it just the way technology has changed things

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Sparki » Sun May 15, 2022 8:11 pm

I play on a DAB station nowdays and have to say the listenership is there on the text, whatsapp and station app its wicked. As for the FM yeah there is less pirates now but the ones that are on are doing a good job. Personally when I wanna listen to the radio its always FM, I dont own a DAB radio nor do I have Alexa. Most of the time (aside from my show on Shine) its just net stations and FM pirates I listen to.
Commercial stations seem to be doing well so it shows the FM isnt going away.

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by sinus trouble » Mon May 16, 2022 12:15 am

Sparki wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 8:11 pm Commercial stations seem to be doing well so it shows the FM isnt going away.
That is a good point Sparki!! :)

Do you really think these Commercial Stations would bother if there wasnt money to be made?

It aint about the 'Bedroom listener' They have their own MP3s to listen to!

I would hazard a guess that most of Visions listeners are workers in their vans or on site!

My radio is on 8 hours a day in work, Tuning into anything im in the mood for? Streaming (However brilliant some may say) is not reliable or cost effective for me!
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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Casual » Mon May 16, 2022 12:11 pm

sinus trouble wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 12:15 am
Sparki wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 8:11 pm Commercial stations seem to be doing well so it shows the FM isnt going away.
That is a good point Sparki!! :)

Do you really think these Commercial Stations would bother if there wasnt money to be made?

It aint about the 'Bedroom listener' They have their own MP3s to listen to!

I would hazard a guess that most of Visions listeners are workers in their vans or on site!

My radio is on 8 hours a day in work, Tuning into anything im in the mood for? Streaming (However brilliant some may say) is not reliable or cost effective for me!
This is actually quite an interesting thread & some interesting takes/POV's have been expressed, couple good/valid points raised from Sparki & Sinus Trouble in the last couple of posts in particular which I'll touch on further. Whether people agree with me or not, here's my take on it all.....

Pirate radio (as in FM listening) in 2022 still does have a place in the world BUT it's relevance to new generations of listeners is practically non-existent due to several things:

1) Most teens/young adults don't own/wouldn't fuck with/wouldn't even know how to tune an FM radio & don't even consider it a source for their music content - the vast majority of that generation solely rely on social media/streaming & digital services for all their music content. IF there are any that buck this trend that does know how to work an FM radio & that do listen in, it is a very small/insignificant minority (as Sinus Trouble has touched upon re: Visions listeners, which I would actually extend to pirate radio listenership as a whole in 2022, these most probably fall into several categories of van drivers/on site workers, at home mums with the radio in the background while doing shit around the house in between school runs & the friends/affiliates/a few social media followers of the DJ's and/or the actual radio station).

2) The whole nostalgia appeal of pirate radio probably only appeals to those over the mid-30's age range (generally speaking) due to the fact the glory days/impact pirate radio had of breaking/pushing new underground genres to the forefront are long gone & nothing significant has happened in this regard since the mid 2000's - Re: this the 80's era is renowned for pirates pushing the Soul & Reggae/Dancehall scenes & later on the Acid House/House scenes, the 90's (when I first found a love of underground music/pirate radio growing up in South London) are famous for the then ever evolving/forward thinking Dance music era with so many now infamous/well loved pirates pushing House, Hardcore, Jungle/DnB & UK Garage genres & the 00's were synonymous for the evolving House/DnB scenes, the peak of UK Garage (in terms of popularity) & the emergence of new genres in Grime & Dubstep from it & that very faddy/flash in the pan UK Funky genre as well as that weird period around the mid 2000's of Electro style House becoming popular for a short period. RnB & Reggae/Dancehall have always maintained a presence during these periods too. My point being, since the mid-2000's (since the emergence of social media, online platforms/apps & streaming/digital services) how has pirate radio been solely relevant in pushing the next big breaking genres in whichever music scene? To my knowledge (unless I've missed something) it's been completely irrelevant in this sense due to so many other alternative online/digital music outlets emerging, the powerhouse that is social media & certain music scenes either stagnating, falling out of popularity or not even getting any kind of air-play on pirate radio (UK Drill - which most kids/young adults are listening to these days - would fall into this category, which is another reason that generation, which is the next generation, don't see pirate radio/FM as a big deal at all).

3) The current crop of pirate radio owners are all older/family dons now who aren't getting any younger & the reality is no fresh young buck in their late teens/early 20's is looking to start a pirate radio station from scratch in this day & age. The current/future for that generation is online/streaming/social media & not the FM.

So to conclude, in my opinion for the above reasons pirate radio as a force for pushing/breaking new genres is a spent one & has been for many many years now which seems to only appeal to certain demographics for convenience/nostalgia in 2022, BUT does it still have a place? Absolutely! And even though the majority of the dial in London is completely saturated by stations that all sound like clones of eachover, there are some stand out exceptions - Rude FM, Vision, House FM, Vibes FM, Kool London, Origin & the new additions of Infrared & much more recently WK-END are all great listens & in my opinion are the best of the current bunch in London in terms of quality & content & long may they continue! London needs them! I actually listen to pirate radio via an app these days as I relocated from London out into the sticks back in 2009, but if I was still in London you best believe I'd still own/use an FM tuner!

Also just one final point re: what Sparki said in a previous post, if FM was truly dead then I'm pretty sure the big legals/corporate run stations would've all disappeared a long time ago to the world of DAB/online platforms/apps. The fact they still insist on maintaining a presence on the FM dial in 2022 still indicates to me that it must still be a sustainable & profitable thing for them (not that I listen to or care for any of that shite!)

I may be wrong with some of my opinions/what I believe - I've tried to be as balanced as I can, but that's my take on this subject.

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by sinus trouble » Mon May 16, 2022 11:01 pm

No opinion is wrong! And i have to say you pretty much summed it up Casual! :)

I would like to also add another angle to this debate?

We seem to get caught up in this London centred mentality and the perception of what a Pirate is?

FM is a form of communication! Not a music platform!

Whether it is Entertainment, Political affairs or Emergency warnings etc.... We cannot deny that it is a relatively simple and efficient medium which requires no infrastructure to operate! Unlike the internet!

Beyond Little London! Pirates are very much alive!
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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by sinus trouble » Tue May 17, 2022 12:35 am

I would also say this!

There are powers that be who would like nothing more than you to think FM is dead!

Shut up and download your MP3s!!

Pirate radio allows you to connect with the right audience if you are dedicated to a cause! Whether the Authorities like it or not!

Ask yourself this question? Is the flaw in the technology? Or does the flaw lie in your content??
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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Polecat » Tue May 17, 2022 8:20 am

You hit the nail on the head there Sinus. People will listen to any broadcast medium if it gives them something they can’t get elsewhere. Content really matters. And as Casual points out, there’s plenty of scope for more variety on the dial.

Also FM also has some unique qualities in addition to the low cost: high fidelity and local coverage. Imo, content that differentiates from the masses and makes the most of those features will gain an audience.
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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by XXL » Tue May 17, 2022 11:53 pm

Also of course there’s no groundbreaking new music coming through pirate radio because there is no new genres at this time. They’ve all been done. And Drill is not what “all the kids” are listening to, no way. Maybe all the wannabe gangster kids that are shotting on next man’s turf, but that’s about it. It’s more house music and liquid dnb that’s in the charts they listen to. UKF and Deep house, which we all know is just modern house and garage.

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by WEBB-TECH » Wed May 18, 2022 10:53 am

I was bang on the Tunein radio on my car stereo till a week or two back when the cunts stopped people without a licence streaming via it.

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Casual » Wed May 18, 2022 6:24 pm

XXL wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 11:53 pm Also of course there’s no groundbreaking new music coming through pirate radio because there is no new genres at this time. They’ve all been done.
Hence my point about scenes stagnating! So pirate radio in 2022 doesn't have much of or even any impact in pushing new/breaking underground genres to the masses & hasn't done so for arguably the last 15 years or so.....
XXL wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 11:53 pm And Drill is not what “all the kids” are listening to, no way. Maybe all the wannabe gangster kids that are shotting on next man’s turf, but that’s about it. It’s more house music and liquid dnb that’s in the charts they listen to. UKF and Deep house, which we all know is just modern house and garage.
My opinion's based on what I see XXL, so chill out with your passive aggressiveness/know it all type mentality! 'Kin 'ell man!! 🤣

Don't know what kids you see/know of who are into House/Liquid DnB (apart from maybe the heavily diluted forms of these genres that maybe pushed on commercial radio perhaps? Which is basically just hybrid Pop music stemming from long established underground sub-cultures/scenes & certainly nothing specialist/niche like the purest forms of House/Liquid DnB actually are), but I have a 21 year old step son with loads of mates here in the sticks & in London & I also live near a college where all the kids there (some wannabe hood kids, some just regular country bumpkin ones) link up in the communal park nearby with their bluetooth speakers all the time & they're all playing Drill mate! Ain't none of them playing or even interested in House or Liquid DnB! They're doing what kids do generally, floating with the wind on what's fashionable within their circles/age range & being easily influenced (from other mates/what they see on social media) - All I see/hear from these yutes is Drill! House/Liquid DnB re: these kids is a myth/non-existant (generally speaking, if there is an exception to this it'll be a very small/insignificant minority who'll buck the trend & go against the grain on this).

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Casual » Wed May 18, 2022 6:36 pm

sinus trouble wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:35 am I would also say this!

There are powers that be who would like nothing more than you to think FM is dead!

Shut up and download your MP3s!!

Pirate radio allows you to connect with the right audience if you are dedicated to a cause! Whether the Authorities like it or not!

Ask yourself this question? Is the flaw in the technology? Or does the flaw lie in your content??
Absolutely spot on!

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Casual » Wed May 18, 2022 8:15 pm

Casual wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 6:24 pm .....Don't know what kids you see/know of who are into House/Liquid DnB (apart from maybe the heavily diluted forms of these genres that maybe pushed on commercial radio perhaps? Which is basically just hybrid Pop music stemming from long established underground sub-cultures/scenes & certainly nothing specialist/niche like the purest forms of House/Liquid DnB actually are), but I have a 21 year old step son with loads of mates here in the sticks & in London & I also live near a college where all the kids there (some wannabe hood kids, some just regular country bumpkin ones) link up in the communal park nearby with their bluetooth speakers all the time & they're all playing Drill mate! Ain't none of them playing or even interested in House or Liquid DnB! They're doing what kids do generally, floating with the wind on what's fashionable within their circles/age range & being easily influenced (from other mates/what they see on social media) - All I see/hear from these yutes is Drill! House/Liquid DnB re: these kids is a myth/non-existant (generally speaking, if there is an exception to this it'll be a very small/insignificant minority who'll buck the trend & go against the grain on this).
Forgot to mention in my post, along with the Drill these kids are playing I do also hear the occasional bit of Trap/Hip Hop, RnB & Afrobeats as well. I would actually be pretty amazed if I heard any Liquid DnB!

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Bton-FM » Wed May 18, 2022 10:00 pm

It's quite a small minority of young people that listen to drill. Maybe I'm just biased because of where I live but I'd say it's less than 5% who are really into it. If you play drill at a night or a party, people will leave but if you play Bassline, House, Garage, DnB, Techno, Disco they love it. It's really hard to generalise on what they like but I'd say Hip Hop is pretty popular.

Sinus - I was thinking exactly the same thing earlier. If your content is dull then how can you expect anyone to tune in (especially young people!)? They don't want to listen to DJ original junglist who played as some rave you've never heard of 20 years ago.

Furthermore, I agree that we get caught up in following Pirate Radio traditions such as playing only dance music.... why not spice it up a bit? Have someone play some Ska or Reggae or Disco or whatever. About 10 years back there was a station down my way which was a relay of a French station called 'F.I.P'. It played a totally random selection of genres back to back and people loved it! FM piracy might be decades old but doesn't mean your content and hosting style has to be?

Think of all that potential listenership you could tap into by broadening your content a bit genre-wise. In other countries, pirates play all sorts of music! Dance Radio Amsterdam, for example, plays soul and 80s classics amongst other things.

Don't get me wrong I'm a 90's Garage head and I love dance music to bits but .... why not break the mould?

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Casual » Wed May 18, 2022 11:22 pm

Bton-FM wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:00 pm It's quite a small minority of young people that listen to drill. Maybe I'm just biased because of where I live but I'd say it's less than 5% who are really into it. If you play drill at a night or a party, people will leave but if you play Bassline, House, Garage, DnB, Techno, Disco they love it. It's really hard to generalise on what they like but I'd say Hip Hop is pretty popular.

Sinus - I was thinking exactly the same thing earlier. If your content is dull then how can you expect anyone to tune in (especially young people!)? They don't want to listen to DJ original junglist who played as some rave you've never heard of 20 years ago.

Furthermore, I agree that we get caught up in following Pirate Radio traditions such as playing only dance music.... why not spice it up a bit? Have someone play some Ska or Reggae or Disco or whatever. About 10 years back there was a station down my way which was a relay of a French station called 'F.I.P'. It played a totally random selection of genres back to back and people loved it! FM piracy might be decades old but doesn't mean your content and hosting style has to be?

Think of all that potential listenership you could tap into by broadening your content a bit genre-wise. In other countries, pirates play all sorts of music! Dance Radio Amsterdam, for example, plays soul and 80s classics amongst other things.

Don't get me wrong I'm a 90's Garage head and I love dance music to bits but .... why not break the mould?
To be fair, where you're from (Brighton I'm guessing) I can imagine any Dance genre would go down a hell of a lot better at a party than Drill! In fact generally at a party/rave/event anywhere (where the 4-way of loud music, a young crowd with high energy, alcohol & which ever chosen narco/contraband - pick your poison!) I'd imagine that would always be the case. Also to be fair Drill isn't really a genre which gets played at many events in general (from what I've been told), it's more of a thing kids listen to via social media (as there's usually a bit of visual/video to go with the track) & chilling/socialising with eachover. Like I said at the end of my original post, I may be wrong with my opinion, but it was only ever based on what I've observed.

That aside I have to agree with sentiment on the previous couple of posts, a bit of different content on pirate radio would be very refreshing & could potentially bring in some more interest from a different generation/crowd. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, in London there are some very good/reliable stations that are currently on that do a very good job at what they do but generally speaking a lot of the content of the pirates in London is extremely stale & has been for a long time now.

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by sinus trouble » Wed May 18, 2022 11:46 pm

Some excellent points from XXL and Bton! :)

With regards to content! If we take an example like Centreforce? They have a unique business model which will always attract the traditional but ageing demographic! Maybe picking up a few curious youngsters along the way?

Yet i fear would decline as time moves on!

We tend to think times are changing? However that is not entirely true! Technology is changing! But Human behavior is not!

As a spieces, We all crave that rebellious side! The feeling of pushing the boundaries and disrupting the 'Norm'

The 'Hippies' of the 60s are not so dis-similar to todays youth! Yes you will always get the conformists who just roll with whatever they are told too!

To stay relevant? You need to embrace change! (Perceived change) For the younger generation its about freedom and fighting the establishment! For the older folk? Its about preserving past freedom!
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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by sinus trouble » Thu May 19, 2022 12:15 am

Also to elaborate on Polecats comment! :)

FM is far superior to MP3s yet it is decades older! We should not underestimate the youngsters!

With the rise of vinyl and simpler mediums! Less complex lifestyles are following due to the current state of the economy and mainstream media!

The humble Receiver could make a massive comeback!
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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Bton-FM » Thu May 19, 2022 12:27 am

Casual wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:22 pm
To be fair, where you're from (Brighton I'm guessing) I can imagine any Dance genre would go down a hell of a lot better at a party than Drill! In fact generally at a party/rave/event anywhere (where the 4-way of loud music, a young crowd with high energy, alcohol & which ever chosen narco/contraband - pick your poison!) I'd imagine that would always be the case. Also to be fair Drill isn't really a genre which gets played at many events in general (from what I've been told), it's more of a thing kids listen to via social media (as there's usually a bit of visual/video to go with the track) & chilling/socialising with eachover. Like I said at the end of my original post, I may be wrong with my opinion, but it was only ever based on what I've observed.
Yeah you're right, once you have a mix of alcohol, a young crowd and a 4 to the floor drum pattern it's guaranteed to go down a treat! :lol: Mind you I think you can play anything to drunk people and they dance as long as its not gabber.

I don't really find that the kids like to listen to drill when they are socialising but I am in a bubble being in Brighton I'll admit. Either way, I know what you mean it's on socials a lot and in the charts ect.
Polecat wrote: People will listen to any broadcast medium if it gives them something they can’t get elsewhere
I think this is essentially what we are all getting at that people will want to listen if you are offering something unique that you can't find elsewhere.

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Bton-FM » Thu May 19, 2022 12:35 am

sinus trouble wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:15 am Also to elaborate on Polecats comment! :)

FM is far superior to MP3s yet it is decades older! We should not underestimate the youngsters!

With the rise of vinyl and simpler mediums! Less complex lifestyles are following due to the current state of the economy and mainstream media!

The humble Receiver could make a massive comeback!
It would be so cool if radio made a comeback and there was a rejection of streaming services. I was going to write it in my post above but it felt like a bit of a ludicrous idea. Now you've reminded me of the rise of vinyl it doesn't seem so far fetched.

I guess we just need Whacky FM on the dial now! :o

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by Casual » Thu May 19, 2022 11:26 am

Bton-FM wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:27 am
Casual wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:22 pm
To be fair, where you're from (Brighton I'm guessing) I can imagine any Dance genre would go down a hell of a lot better at a party than Drill! In fact generally at a party/rave/event anywhere (where the 4-way of loud music, a young crowd with high energy, alcohol & which ever chosen narco/contraband - pick your poison!) I'd imagine that would always be the case. Also to be fair Drill isn't really a genre which gets played at many events in general (from what I've been told), it's more of a thing kids listen to via social media (as there's usually a bit of visual/video to go with the track) & chilling/socialising with eachover. Like I said at the end of my original post, I may be wrong with my opinion, but it was only ever based on what I've observed.
Yeah you're right, once you have a mix of alcohol, a young crowd and a 4 to the floor drum pattern it's guaranteed to go down a treat! :lol: Mind you I think you can play anything to drunk people and they dance as long as its not gabber.

I don't really find that the kids like to listen to drill when they are socialising but I am in a bubble being in Brighton I'll admit. Either way, I know what you mean it's on socials a lot and in the charts ect.
Polecat wrote: People will listen to any broadcast medium if it gives them something they can’t get elsewhere
I think this is essentially what we are all getting at that people will want to listen if you are offering something unique that you can't find elsewhere.
Re: Your 1st point - I hear you mate. Brighton has always been one of those unique places that goes against the grain with what's perceived as the general norm - it's what makes it so unique I guess & it has a charm/appeal due to that if you're the sort of person who can appreciate/have a love for anything leftfield. With that, I've always wondered why there hasn't been more pirate activity down there than there has been over the years.....

Re: your final point quoting Polecat- That is basically the meat & potatoes of it all. Something new/unique on the FM that hasn't been done already 1000 times before is needed & has been for years! Especially in the bigger cities with varying demographics & higher populations to reach to. What that different/alternative content could be though, who actually knows?!?!.....

Have to say, this thread makes for great reading! Some excellent/interesting posts on here.

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Re: Times have changed. Who listens to fm pirate

Post by mpx » Thu May 19, 2022 1:27 pm

Would be good to hear something that breaks the mould and isn't scared to push musical boundaries. More variety is needed, definitely.

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