RF Head 1w driverboard help

[MiXiN]

Alright guys,

It's been a while!

Hope you're all well.

My mate bought this from eBay a while ago, and it looks just like an RF Head driverboard I had years ago.

He's given it to me, but as it is, it's useless.

Has anyone got a schematic or component list for this as there are no markings on the PCB?

[RF-Head]

NRG Sells it on ebay as KIT
Mail him for the component layout
He bought the design and Layout from me
I stopped making this design

[MiXiN]

NRG Sells it on ebay as KIT
Mail him for the component layout
He bought the design and Layout from me
I stopped making this design

Thanks for the reply, RF head.

I thought NRG in the UK was long gone & only in New Zealand now.

I remember having one of these years ago but can't remember what happened to it.

Are they clean, & do you have any old documentation or parts layout for it in your archives?

[teckniqs]

I thought NRG in the UK was long gone & only in New Zealand now.

NRG Chris in the UK is still about doing bits and bobs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/nrg-electronics

[radium98]

i remember saw it ,but where ,and seems to me like the broadcast warehouse 1w

[radium98]

i remember saw it ,but where ,and seems to me like the broadcast warehouse 1w

found only this ,i dont remember if another clear foto is in this forum.

[yellowbeard]

Here's an old fleabay post of that board built up, it's a bigger picture for sure, but you can see a half dozen SMT components on the back, best of luck picking out what they are... You are going to have to get the hex file for the PIC too, what you really need is someone who has one that's working I reckon.
https://www.ebay.it/itm/202870569777

[teckniqs]

There is a lot of people who are led to believe it originally came from the Netherlands but it was originally copied from a builder here in the UK

.... I think the very first ones were the 300mW version originally designed and built by "M" who also designed the "LONDON BABY" amps etc.

[MiXiN]

Many thanks for the replies guys.

It seems this uses the PIC16F628, and this exact PIC IC is used in a couple of other drivers that use up/down push button frequency setting.

If I was to pull a PIC16F628 from one of these other working drivers, is it as simple as fitting it to this and then it'll work, or are they all programmed differently?

I don't know the 1st thing about these PIC IC's & don't have a programmer or even know anyone that can do it.

[MiXiN]

Here's an old fleabay post of that board built up, it's a bigger picture for sure, but you can see a half dozen SMT components on the back, best of luck picking out what they are... You are going to have to get the hex file for the PIC too, what you really need is someone who has one that's working I reckon.
https://www.ebay.it/itm/202870569777

Alright pal,

Massive fan of some of the webpages I've seen on the web published by you. They always crop up when I Google around.

I believe this PCB uses the PIC16F628A IC.

If I was to get a working driver that uses this specific IC, is it a simple matter of pulling the IC out of it, then putting it in this, then it'll work? Or does this PIC differ with programming on different drivers?

I think my mate has a couple of different driverboards that use this PIC, hence why I ask.

If I can just pull one out of his, then put it in mine after I've assembled it, job's a good un.

Hope I'm making sense.

[RF-Head]

@tec
The driverboard is not a copy of the M driverboard
M use a 50MHz osc a doubler and a few MPSH10s to get 300mW and a SAA1057 as PLL
On this board the RF stage is a copy of the BW design but use a other osc and PLL (TSA5511)
The controller is made by the someone that also made the firmware for the driverboard in the J boxes

[Albert H]

If I was to get a working driver that uses this specific IC, is it a simple matter of pulling the IC out of it, then putting it in this, then it'll work? Or does this PIC differ with programming on different drivers?

The PIC contains "firmware" - a programme that is written into it to make it do a specific function. The programme inside the PIC will vary according to the type of PLL IC it's driving - the 145170, the SAA1057, the TSA5511 (as just three examples) are all programmed in different ways, so need different programmes inside their controlling PICs.

Most people who develop PIC code (like me) are quite precious about the code they've written - after all, it's a source of income for them. Once the firmware has been written into a PIC, you can make it both permanently loaded and unreadable by blowing internal "protection" fuses inside the IC. Most people do this.

Most of my driver boards use discrete logic PLLs - more reliable, lower noise, easily reproducible, and cheaper than the PLL & PIC solution. I use a 74ACT4024 as a prescaler, then a 74HCT4040 as a pre-settable divider (using diodes to programme it), a 74HCT4060 as the reference and reference divider, and a 7046 as the phase comparator. The loop filter uses a dual op-amp (with a 30V rail derived from a voltage multiplier), and if it's built in double-sided surface-mount, it's 4.5cm X 2.5cm. We put them inside little tinplate boxes to keep the digits out of the RF, and they work every time. They cost about €4.50 each to make in quantity. Setting the required frequency is just a question of putting solder blobs in the right places on the board, to connect or omit the diodes around the 4040. The phase comparator gives a really reliable lock indication, too.

On some PLLs for very critical, low noise projects, we use a discrete logic phase comparator. It adds two ICs to the PLL system, but it's quite simply the best phase comparator I have ever seen. The design was part of the subject of my Doctoral dissertation many years ago, and National Semi still use my topology in some of their LMX-series of PLL ICs.

I'll put the circuit of the basic PLL up here if anyone wants it. You can build it out of conventional through-hole parts if you're sensible with the layout. Works every time!

[MiXiN]

If I was to get a working driver that uses this specific IC, is it a simple matter of pulling the IC out of it, then putting it in this, then it'll work? Or does this PIC differ with programming on different drivers?

The PIC contains "firmware" - a programme that is written into it to make it do a specific function. The programme inside the PIC will vary according to the type of PLL IC it's driving - the 145170, the SAA1057, the TSA5511 (as just three examples) are all programmed in different ways, so need different programmes inside their controlling PICs.

Most people who develop PIC code (like me) are quite precious about the code they've written - after all, it's a source of income for them. Once the firmware has been written into a PIC, you can make it both permanently loaded and unreadable by blowing internal "protection" fuses inside the IC. Most people do this.

Most of my driver boards use discrete logic PLLs - more reliable, lower noise, easily reproducible, and cheaper than the PLL & PIC solution. I use a 74ACT4024 as a prescaler, then a 74HCT4040 as a pre-settable divider (using diodes to programme it), a 74HCT4060 as the reference and reference divider, and a 7046 as the phase comparator. The loop filter uses a dual op-amp (with a 30V rail derived from a voltage multiplier), and if it's built in double-sided surface-mount, it's 4.5cm X 2.5cm. We put them inside little tinplate boxes to keep the digits out of the RF, and they work every time. They cost about €4.50 each to make in quantity. Setting the required frequency is just a question of putting solder blobs in the right places on the board, to connect or omit the diodes around the 4040. The phase comparator gives a really reliable lock indication, too.

On some PLLs for very critical, low noise projects, we use a discrete logic phase comparator. It adds two ICs to the PLL system, but it's quite simply the best phase comparator I have ever seen. The design was part of the subject of my Doctoral dissertation many years ago, and National Semi still use my topology in some of their LMX-series of PLL ICs.

I'll put the circuit of the basic PLL up here if anyone wants it. You can build it out of conventional through-hole parts if you're sensible with the layout. Works every time!

Cheers for the info', Albert.

I've found out this PCB I have here uses a TSA5511 & PIC16F628A, so, if I sourced a working driver board that uses these 2 same IC's - do you think I could just pull the PIC out of the working driver & transplant it in mine?

I ask, as my mate is sure he's got an RDVV board & some other that has this exact PIC IC on it - one or both also uses the TSA5511 like mine.

[RF-Head]

No it wont work!!
This board use other pins on the controller for "lock"status
Normal the lock status is comming from the TSA but we use also a input on the PIC to control high SWR so the Pic controls the "lock" status and when high SWR the pic go in power off status until reset

[teckniqs]

@tec
The driverboard is not a copy of the M driverboard
M use a 50MHz osc a doubler and a few MPSH10s to get 300mW and a SAA1057 as PLL
On this board the RF stage is a copy of the BW design but use a other osc and PLL (TSA5511)
The controller is made by the someone that also made the firmware for the driverboard in the J boxes

OK Fair enough, it was the little stickman picture which made me think this, plus other people told me the same thing as what I thought.

.....But fair enough if different PLL circuit and BW RF circuit.

[yellowbeard]

Well the BW exciter is here, schematic is the last thing on the page:
http://www.geocities.ws/hellonasty.geo/bw_pll_plus.html
There does seem to be differences, the varicap diode(s) for instance. I don't think using another hex file is going to work with it. Enigma may sell you a programmed PIC if you sweet talk him on ebay. Good luck and have fun!

[Bton-FM]

If I was to get a working driver that uses this specific IC, is it a simple matter of pulling the IC out of it, then putting it in this, then it'll work? Or does this PIC differ with programming on different drivers?

The PIC contains "firmware" - a programme that is written into it to make it do a specific function. The programme inside the PIC will vary according to the type of PLL IC it's driving - the 145170, the SAA1057, the TSA5511 (as just three examples) are all programmed in different ways, so need different programmes inside their controlling PICs.

Most people who develop PIC code (like me) are quite precious about the code they've written - after all, it's a source of income for them. Once the firmware has been written into a PIC, you can make it both permanently loaded and unreadable by blowing internal "protection" fuses inside the IC. Most people do this.

Most of my driver boards use discrete logic PLLs - more reliable, lower noise, easily reproducible, and cheaper than the PLL & PIC solution. I use a 74ACT4024 as a prescaler, then a 74HCT4040 as a pre-settable divider (using diodes to programme it), a 74HCT4060 as the reference and reference divider, and a 7046 as the phase comparator. The loop filter uses a dual op-amp (with a 30V rail derived from a voltage multiplier), and if it's built in double-sided surface-mount, it's 4.5cm X 2.5cm. We put them inside little tinplate boxes to keep the digits out of the RF, and they work every time. They cost about €4.50 each to make in quantity. Setting the required frequency is just a question of putting solder blobs in the right places on the board, to connect or omit the diodes around the 4040. The phase comparator gives a really reliable lock indication, too.

On some PLLs for very critical, low noise projects, we use a discrete logic phase comparator. It adds two ICs to the PLL system, but it's quite simply the best phase comparator I have ever seen. The design was part of the subject of my Doctoral dissertation many years ago, and National Semi still use my topology in some of their LMX-series of PLL ICs.

I'll put the circuit of the basic PLL up here if anyone wants it. You can build it out of conventional through-hole parts if you're sensible with the layout. Works every time!

Are there an prescalers that can be used over 100mhz so that you dont need to use a doubler?

[Albert H]

The IC I use for the prescaler goes easily to 120 MHz.

However, there is a really good reason to use a doubler - you won't get RF feedback from the power stages back into the oscillator. If this happens the very least of your problems will be a nasty hum! Roger's rigs (Broadcast Warehouse) really suffered from hum problems - also because he increased the varicap sensitivity so much (in an effort to be able to cover the whole band without adjustment). They were dreadful.

The NRG circuits used a "self-doubling" pair of oscillators, each running at half the output frequency, but current-robbing each other so they were out of phase, so you ended up with two signals overlapped so after a highpass filter you got clean Band II. We then had a couple of high gain broadband stages that gave a healthy 4 Watts all the way across the band. No twiddling required!

The one trimmer - in the oscillator - was going to be replaced by logic-selected capacitors, switched in with diodes and selected by the part of the band you'd set the frequency setting switches to. The prototypes were well advanced when Stephen died - we'd got the oscillator to be able to tune 65 - 115 MHz without adjustment, but with the advantages of rapid lock-in, no RF feedback, low modulation distortion, pretty much the same modulation sensitivity across the band and a really quiet carrier.

The half frequency generation also meant that you could use ordinary, cheap 74HCT logic.

[teckniqs]

Just in-case anyone needs to get more than 1w from their 1w driver board, just change your 2n4427 to one of these and you should have a nice 1.5 to 2w without any efforts.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//183758596411

[Bton-FM]

@Albert H
I thought the 4024 only went up to 70 MHz?